FED buggy racers

[trikbitz]

Not sure I would say in the past to cover Pendine Pembrey and Hoylake for racing but now it will only be good for Hoylake I think ( could be wrong )

[Boater]

I really can't understand what we are discussing here. I don't see how it matters which FED club, be it a full club with a sailing site, or an affiliated club with no site, you pay your FED insurance through. The Insurance premium is ultimately passed on to the insurers, so neither club benefits from it and it doesn't give you any voting rights either in FED or in a club to have paid your insurance through them. Can someone explain why this is not a red herring?

Rumours are dangerous, I know of a couple of rumours about FED clubs in the NW, one is similar to what has been said here, the other (from a source with better provenance) is completely contradictory to what people are posting here. Believe rumours at your peril, and for goodness sake try and avoid arguing about them on public forums where ultimately we will all end up looking like idiots.

I think some people need to understand the idea of the federation. The federation is a federation of clubs, the clubs run the FED not the other way round. No-one is a member of the federation as such, we are all members of FED clubs, or in the case of PKA only members, members of an affiliated club. The main reason class 8 doesn't get it's own way within the FED is that we can't even agree amongst ourselves what the right way is. If we can't present something coherent how can we expect to push it forward? There are just too many factions within class 8 and kite buggying at present, and I can't for the life of me understand why.

Jim

[Jo0lz]

Ah Joolz, perhaps you can explain. Why do I need to take out Fed insurance when I join WSYC. Would my bpka or bksa insurance not suffice already?

Tim
In paying WSYC Subs they include a FED Affliation Fee and a FED insurance fee. We are a FED site with a license from our local council that is on the basis of our being affiliated to the FED as the national body [also therefore affiliated to an international body] for wind powered land sports.

I and my missus are still keeping our BPKA[BBC] membership active as we are responsible kiters and on the odd ocasion we do power kite at non-FED site we still see fit to have public liability insurance.

WSYC voted for the adoption of the Zurich policy by the FED at the AGM in the belief that a less restrictive insurance cover would help us all promote our sport.

Its unfortunate that the newly elected FED Insurance Officer felt it necessary to resign within a fortnight of taking up the post and so it looks like we have "missed the boat" for this year with Zurich and we will more than likely be insured with Perkins Slade for another year. Such a missed opportunity.

On a personal note I would like to see things change this year.
I know a lot of paperwork needs to be put in place for Zurich + FED to work. Like all the Site Risk Assessment for all the locations would need to be redone in a consistent format that Zurich are happy with. Though I'm not sure who is going to oversee all this now the new FED Insurance Officer has resigned.

Jo0Lz

[spooky]

Hi Jo0lz, long time hope you are well?

Quick question (to any one who may know) what was the difference in the Zurich insurance to make the change, ie did it cover beyound FED sites?

Only ask as I have noticed there seems to be a shift in certain clubs/site requirment for insurance, especially for events. So hoping that soon one will do for all?

Good luck, Jon

[windjammer]

why cant we just go and have fun on the beach wats with all this arguing

[tigertim]

Jim/Matt - First thing to note is no ones arguing here. This is a conversation. Its strange when anything remotely controversial is discussed on a forum people immediately think its an argument!

Jim - The purpose of my thread was the old concern about class 8 not getting its fair representation within the Fed affiliation. The voting rights thing is clearly a misconception on my part - I didn't realise the PKA had no vote at all... its even worse than I imagined! Although why I'm surprised by this I don't know - apparently at a recent meeting "the Fed" didn't even know the PKA selected the national class 8 team! Thats why we need better representation!!!

If voting rights are club based (territorial) then there is hope because there are existing sites with no members at all. So maybe the PKA could form a club at the site, all the racers could insure through that club then all of a sudden... one new big club with voting rights! There may also be other sites up for grabs in the future too. This is the more complicated method, as it involves working with the Fed, which I believe in my thoroughly uneducated way is probably not needed anyway. Ultimately, everything about power, control and money in our sport (all kite sports) boils down to the insurance - thats the point here.


Joolz - I don't think that really answers my question. When you say "we are a Fed site" what does that mean? The club chooses to get its own club insurance through affiliating to the Fed?? Thats it really isn't it - it could choose to do otherwise if it wanted to.

So what if I've got my own adequate cover - what invalidates my bpka insurance at Hoy?

I'd be interested to see the licence from the council. Is it on the basis of being affiliated to the Fed expressly or merely to a national body? Perhaps there are other national bodies which "class 8" already complies with which would satisfy the council.

Finally - does anyone involved in the organisation of our sport here truly hand on heart really understand all this insurance stuff?

[Kiteboyza]

.....As a club we payed close on £2000 affiliation fees to FED. What did we get in return..........

£5million public liability insurance for 180 members?

that is only the affiliation fee of £12 per memebr...you still have to add the insurance cost..you should know how much the insurance bit is...

[jeffrington]

£5million public liability insurance for 180 members?

that is only the affiliation fee of £12 per memebr...you still have to add the insurance cost..you should know how much the insurance bit is...

So we pay a club fee, that i understand and am more than happy to pay,
we pay a fee for insurance, also understand and am happy to pay,
but what do we get for this "affiliation fee"?

i know what im getting with the club and insurance fees but what does this £12 get me, why do we have to pay it?

[Offshore]

but what do we get for this "affiliation fee"?

i know what im getting with the club and insurance fees but what does this £12 get me, why do we have to pay it?

from my perspective affiliation to a national body that is affiliated to an international body gives a minority sport some credibility... certainly had it not been for the FED we would have not received the sponsorship from a NON kitesport company (kitesport companies DON'T have the money) nor would we have received the level of media/press attention on a national basis for the 24 hour event in June...

...perhaps the bigger picture should be looked at.

[tigertim]

Couldn't agree more Dave, however the question remains whether the Fed is the right affililate body for kite buggiers on traditional Fed sites. Does it provide the support and value which we need/deserve?

[andya]

Couldn't agree more Dave, however the question remains whether the Fed is the right affililate body for kite buggiers on traditional Fed sites. Does it provide the support and value which we need/deserve?

Am I right in thinking that in 2008 there is only one site left in the country where you can see "kite buggiers on traditional Fed sites" (I'm assuming the council run one does not count as "Traditional Fed")?? Agreed?

[tigertim]

Couldn't agree more Dave, however the question remains whether the Fed is the right affililate body for kite buggiers on traditional Fed sites. Does it provide the support and value which we need/deserve?

Am I right in thinking that in 2008 there is only one site left in the country where you can see "kite buggiers on traditional Fed sites" (I'm assuming the council run one does not count as "Traditional Fed")?? Agreed?

Good question, don't know. Out of the "big 4" which have been used in recent times I think its fair to say the 2 Camarthenshire sites will not be "Fed sites" in 2008?? Ainsdale... maybe, maybe not... its been less restrictive and recognised various insurances for some time anyway?

Which only leaves Hoylake... now theres a lot of kite buggiers there... lots Ah... I think I need to get my Yahoo User Group approved!

[trikbitz]

Couldn't agree more Dave, however the question remains whether the Fed is the right affililate body for kite buggiers on traditional Fed sites. Does it provide the support and value which we need/deserve?

Am I right in thinking that in 2008 there is only one site left in the country where you can see "kite buggiers on traditional Fed sites" (I'm assuming the council run one does not count as "Traditional Fed")?? Agreed?

I think that is the case
Hoylake - Fed
Pendine and Pembrey Gone their own way
Ainsdale - just show insurance and get a permit off the ranger No clum membership required
Weston - I think is a mixed bag with more than one group

[Kiteboyza]

Hoylake =FED
Pendine/Pembrey=doing our own stuff
Ainsdale=all insurance welcome
Weston=3 insurances on the go
Brean=FED Landyachts only

[Kiteboyza]

that is only the affiliation fee of £12 per memebr...you still have to add the insurance cost..you should know how much the insurance bit is...

So we pay a club fee, that i understand and am more than happy to pay,
we pay a fee for insurance, also understand and am happy to pay,
but what do we get for this "affiliation fee"?

i know what im getting with the club and insurance fees but what does this £12 get me, why do we have to pay it?

close your eyes.......................





what do you see?

Thats your answer

[Freeman]

Affiliation Fee's - Well alledgedly, we were supposed to get a nice BFSLYC sticker every year to prove we were insured, but I haven't seen one of those since 2005...

A bargain at 8/12quid...........

Other than that, the benefits are harder to see

[scud4984]

i heard off of someone the other evening, not going to mention names,, but in the convo the other person said that the FED might be dropping class 8`s from the insurance at hoy, in fact probably from the whole fed thing, (if i remember correctly its cos of some claim going through,or gone through)
Now i dont know if thats right or not,, so hopefully Jools can help out on that n squash it,
All i`d like to know, and its not being selfish,, .
Is
Will i still be allowed to buggy at Hoylake if i pay my yearly subs.?

I only fly there anyway,, and i`d much rather just paid one fee,, i dont care how much.

Sorry if i sound like im abandoning ship n not helping, but the politics are way beyond me... I just wanna go flying and have fun.

[spooky]

Whats a "traditional Fed site"?
Only ask as I understood that a few years ago one on that list became a FED site at the insistance of the local council? So if no longer a FED site then what rstrictions will apply?
If we are now splitering even more.....???

Jon

[Kiteboyza]

Just got confirmation...FED are sticking with the same insurance as last year, good ol Perkins Slade....small FED clubs are going to pay a lot of money. Seems the more members you have the cheaper it becomes

Traditional FED site Spooky, they seem to be getting less and less..

[Offshore]

Just got confirmation...FED are sticking with the same insurance as last year, good ol Perkins Slade....small FED clubs are going to pay a lot of money. Seems the more members you have the cheaper it becomes

Traditional FED site Spooky, they seem to be getting less and less..

Now that CLSC have left the FED... I assume from 31/12/07 will the Zurich policy be in place for 01/01/2008???

[Plezzy]

I'm confused

I'm currently a member at both WSYC (local club) and CLSC, and I have BPKA cover for other (non Fed) beaches I occasionally use.

For 2008, how many lots of insurance am I going to have to takeout (some through membership) to ensure I'm covered to fly at my favourite locations?

Given that i'm trying to encourage both my wife and son to get involved (they are already covered by BPKA) I'm worried that it is going to get a tad expensive.

Apols for diverting the thread with a related, but personal post.

PS - Should have said that I may not be racing so will not be covered by 'event' insurance or exceptions allowing another policy to apply as might occur when at an organised event.

[Sparhawk]

For 2008, how many lots of insurance am I going to have to takeout (some through membership) to ensure I'm covered to fly at my favourite locations?

Three. Just the same as you did in 2007.

What's confusing?

[Offshore]

For 2008, how many lots of insurance am I going to have to takeout (some through membership) to ensure I'm covered to fly at my favourite locations?

Three. Just the same as you did in 2007.

What's confusing?

Sorry wasn't that 2 as CLSC was/is FED in 2007??? And 3 in 2008??? or have I missed something??

[Sparhawk]

Three. Just the same as you did in 2007.

What's confusing?

Sorry wasn't that 2 as CLSC was/is FED in 2007??? And 3 in 2008??? or have I missed something??

Err no.

If you were a member of all three in 2007, you paid money to each of the three. You may not have paid as MUCH as you will in 2008, but that was nt the question

Just me being smart If you want to buggy at all three, pay the money.

If you dont, just buy two.

Or just buy one

Or dont buy any. And dont buggy.

It s all about choice

[Plezzy]

Three. Just the same as you did in 2007.

What's confusing?

Sorry wasn't that 2 as CLSC was/is FED in 2007??? And 3 in 2008??? or have I missed something??

Until 31st Dec I only pay twice as CLSC is a Fed beach.