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350 for the black oneOriginally Posted by Offshore
Is that the new one
350 for the black oneIs that the new one
Sorry - got to but in here!!
The Fed has a fly anywhere policy for events and this can be extended to flying sites once they have been assessed by the fed approved assessor there currently is no class 8 assessor, which is one of the problems-
"Contrary to popular belief the Fed policy provides 'sail anywhere any time' cover, providing you have the landowners written permission, it is pre-planned in the form of an official event and a Risk Assessment is done for it, so you can hold a regatta anywhere." - quote from Fed insurance officer
So theoretically you could have a number of sites linked to clubs placed around the country, and they could all fall under the Fed insurance.
It would have been a lot better if things had worked out better.
I may regret spouting out, and please I am not taking sides, its just I know quite a bit about this as I have been working closely with the Fed for years over insurance!
As for Hoylake, is it not in the licence with the Council that you must have Fed insurance to sail there? I may be wrong and again I may regret saying that!!
These are my views and not those of any organisation I represent.
Last edited by big-jon; 9th December 2007 at 23:22.
John Lewis - Ainsdale Access flyer, buggy/board
... hit the delete button?I will let you fill the rest in yourselvesSome things in life are bad,
They can really make you mad.
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle,
Don't grumble, give a whistle,
And this'll help things turn out for the best, and...
£351
pmslYou just havei cant be bothered to post on this thread but who do i give my dosh to be able to race next year
Join the TTKBA mate, it will cost you £250 but will include WSYC membership, FED membership, PKA membership, BPKA insurance and an ask no questions tell no lies support service.
[quote=big-jon;1638332]
I may regret spouting out, and please I am not taking sides, its just I know quite a bit about this as I have been working closely with the Fed for years over insurance!
quote]
Excellent, this is my parting question on this thread for you or another educated person to answer.
Scenario: me sailing at Hoylake on my own midweek
WSYC member, Fed insurance and also my BPKA insurance
I have an incedent colliding with a 3rd party pedestrian (hopefully not my fault)
Which insurance policy can I make a claim with:
A) Fed
B) BPKA
C) Both
D) Neither
I'm gojng for C) myself
[quote=tigertim;1638337]It probably wont be FED as there trying to change the insurance so you wont be able to sail alone.
[quote=tigertim;1638337]i think it would be your fault as there is 6 square miles of beech to play on
Not heard about the above and I dont think they can do that!!
Tim it is a Fed beach so the only policy you could claim on would be the Fed one, although it would not be you claiming it would be the other person claiming against you and the Fed. The policy protects you against other people claiming against you not the other way round.
John Lewis - Ainsdale Access flyer, buggy/board
...somewhere in this thread it mentioned that FED insurance now has person on person... which the BPKA doesn't(correct me if that is erroneous)... so anyone running with BPKA at a FED site is running with a lesser insurance? Y/N?
Jon if you're member of a FED club ask your FED sec to clarify it and see what answer he/she gets back.
Last edited by bulletmagnet; 9th December 2007 at 23:55.
Because the year of that incident was also the year of a change in insurance broker........hence the reason why all the T's should be crossed and i's dotted before the FED change anything regards the insurance
That was not my intentionjoolz, this was always the case.You (I feel) are trying to skew the argument to make CLSC out to be some kind of bad guys..
Just trying to get some clarity as my inlaws live near Pendine...so I may wish to buggy or landyacht their some time in the future
SIMPLE...WSYC is a FED Affiliated Club..CUrrent FED rules [and therefore WSYC rules] state that FED Insurance and affiliation fees are COMPULSORY for all club members......the only way you get out of paying the FED Fee through joining WSYC is if you can prove you have already paid the FED by having joined another FED Affiliated Club.
Well as WSYC Club Sec I should know,and presume that YES you should have FED insurance for our FED Site.
But as I've only been in post a month I'm going to double / triple check.........
Afterall Ainsdale is a FED site...BUT Sefton let you use any £5mil policy
AND the beach Wind'n'Wheels use.... is the same scenario......
Uphill (W&W territory) is not the same scenario You HAVE to be a member of W&W, SWATK, or BLSC.
Just clarifying
Gonna get the girl and kill the baddies, then save the entire planet.
Dont see how Dave as its the same policy (Hence the who to claim from Issue is mute as well as ultimately the same policy will be paying out)
As I understand it issue have been raise reguarding The BKSA policy (about lack of member to member insurnace and not being vaid at none BKSA events) but dont know full details and this could just be another rumour (Along with 90% of the so called facts I have read on this thread)
I have always said and always will that this will never get sorted until all interested parties (FED,PKA,BPKA,BKSA,SWATK,SEKA and any other related wind powered sports can think of) get together plan what kind of policy will suit all (even if it has some options as to say and which sports you are covered for like sports cover direct). and then on mass go to insurance companies and negotiate to get it. But of Course Hell will freeze over first
GaRRy
WSYC K712
BPKA 12
If God rides a Harley............
The Devil rides a Duke!
Couldn't agree more mate.
Tim the Answer is Yes and NODave - I completely understand the control thing, but as I said above lets just park that for now. What I'm trying to do is establish the validity of my BPKA insurance at Hoy. As far as I'm concerned is it is perfectly valid. Has anyone got anything concrete which disproves? No... I didin't think so.
BPKA insurance is valid any where there is not a ban or restriction you are not complying with (and not knowing about it is not a excuse)
Now at Hoylake there is a restriction that says you must be a member of WSYC or a guest (at a event or via day membership). So unless you are member of WSYC and just turn up for the day your insruance is not valid.
However for your membership to be valid you must join WSYC and to join WSYC you must have FED insurance.
So as a member of WSYC your BPKA insurance is valid but other wise it is not.
As for which to claim against makes no difference its the same policy anyway
GaRRy
WSYC K712
BPKA 12
If God rides a Harley............
The Devil rides a Duke!
Exactly! So its quite possible for a Fed affiliated site to have members sailing who aren't members of the Fed and use an alternative 3rd party liability insurance. If there was some form of legal/insurance problem for the Fed, then this would not be possible at Ainsdale.
Therefore affilation and insurance choice must boil down to the land owner and/or the club.
Exactly what I was thinking Garry. However, unless there is something in the licence from the council, then it must be possible for the WSYC to allow membership of their club without insisting that that their members are affiliated and insured by the Fed.
Obviously this could pose control and administrative issues for the club, so I'm saying its the way to go. What I'm really trying to get to the bottom of is the choices which could be open to WSYC.
Seconded ...Couldn't agree more mate.
A few weeks ago I was (foolishly) thinking we were taking the first step there. Towards one, less restrictive, insuracne that is easy to agree to.
Maybe in 2009 ... I live in hope.
In the meantime i'll just muddle through with 3 insurances for 2008 (again)
I agree Garry... something we've all said for a long time... but you now have to add CLSC to your listCouldn't agree more mate.
As far as im aware there is nothing in the license that says WSYC must have FED Insurance. The main reason is that by insisting on it that comittee could be sure every one was definately insured and as such they were covered (The current agreement with council makes Graham,Degsie and Vaughn personally responsible in case of any misshapp not the member involved). Cant really blame them for wanting to make sure they were covered as much as possible (I would do the same).Exactly what I was thinking Garry. However, unless there is something in the licence from the council, then it must be possible for the WSYC to allow membership of their club without insisting that that their members are affiliated and insured by the Fed.
Obviously this could pose control and administrative issues for the club, so I'm saying its the way to go. What I'm really trying to get to the bottom of is the choices which could be open to WSYC.
Now with new negotiations going on and a new comittee maybe this could be looked into. One thing that must be remembered by new comittee is that a lot of what is claimed we can and cant do is just what some people personally think / has become standard pratice. They really must get hold of the actual paper work (council agreements / Fed rules etc) and read them to find out what is actually written down.
Give them some time as they are still finding their feet.
GaRRy
WSYC K712
BPKA 12
If God rides a Harley............
The Devil rides a Duke!
In what way is/has the FED done diddly squat for class 8?
The only reason we can use buggies at Hoylake at all is because the club (which is part of FED) decided to allow class 8's (as adopted by FED filtered down from FISLY) to join. As noted not all FED clubs allow class 8's. In the beginning the club officers approached the few class 8's (I think it was GaRRy, Rob, Stacey and Andy) to explain the fact that the council had licensed the beach to them for landsailing, but rather than just telling them to get lost, they encouraged them to join. I don't know if that was the first time buggiers got involved with the FED, but I have a feeling it may pre-date the formation of the PKA.
The formation of the PKA was something the FED directed in order to promote parakarting or class 8, the PKA currently has an unusual position within FED as neither a club nor part of the main organisation, and that is something that needs to be addressed.
We race (and sail) to FISLY rules, FED is our representative in FISLY and as such we get the rules from FED.
It seems to me that the reason some people perceive the FED as doing nothing for class 8 is that class 8 has spent most of it's time in the FED trying to do it's own thing and keeping the FED at a distance, it doesn't help that class 8 keeps getting more and more splintered with the rise of the BPKA, the interesting scenario with Ainsdale and the supercup, the IPKA, the SPKA and now finally CLSC (possibly WPKA in the future?) all doing their own thing. Most of those organisations have had nothing to do with FED, but the point is they are all vying for a share of the buggiers in the UK. It's no wonder everything is in a mess.
Oh, and regarding the insurance question, option C is fraud. You can have as many policies as you like but you can only claim on one, the insurance firms will then decide between them which one actually pays it (oh yeah, they share your personal data to prevent insurance fraud).
In fact if you were to have an accident and injure a pedestrian, you do not make a claim. You give the pedestrian your name and the address of the club, and you go back to the clubhouse and write the accident up in the log book (there is one there somewhere). The injured party has up to 3 years to sue you for damages arising from the accident so it is important to record the details in as much detail as possible as soon after the event as you can. Then if the injured party, or their ambulance chaser solicitor, decides they want damages 2 years and 11 months in the future they will contact you through the club and the FED can provide the legal support you need through the insurance.
This is probably something most people are not very aware of - ALL accidents need to be recorded in case you ever need to defend a legal action in the future, whether you are FED or BPKA or Endsleigh insured, if you don't have the necessary information to condct a defense you aren't going to get much support from the insurance company. Someone may walk away from an accident tomorrow saying it's fine, they aren't hurt, but they have up to 3 years to change their mind and talk to an injury lawyer.
Completly agree with your post Boater, and in particular I have been thinking a lot about the point above ...
I see three options:
1/ Get the Fed constitution changed so instead of voting strenght been down to number of licenced club pilots. Voting strength is simply by total number of club and association members.
2/ Everyone works within their respective Fed clubs to push the majotrity class 8 view through the Club, and then via the club rep onto the Fed.
3/ Follow the SPKA and IPKA, with new coutry specific Parakarting associations (Welsh and English PKA's) becoming directly associated members to FISLY. Bypassing the British (now English) Fed.
The problem is:
1/ Is impossible due to the voting system (its the Liberal/PR thing)
2/ With the departure of CLSC from the Fed this also seems unlikley due to the lesser numbers.
This leaves us with 3/ - National PKA's directly associated to FISLY.
Could it work?? Any other options???
Item 3 I would say being the much preferred route for Class 8, that way everyone's happy and the BFSLYC can continue as they always did before (all be it without all the income generated from class 8).
W.W.W Wanting Wonderful Winds
Thou saw'est: The strong arm of a Wallace raised to stem the tide of alien tyranny.
One other little point on the insurance issue, the policies held from Perkins Slade are 'Claims made' so effectively you have to still be insured at the time any prospective claim might be made in the future, up to 3 years after any incident.
I'm not aware of the terms of the Zurich policy but it may well be similar.
W.W.W Wanting Wonderful Winds
Thou saw'est: The strong arm of a Wallace raised to stem the tide of alien tyranny.
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