Is it possible to love two different kinds of kites?

[guitar_nut]

I'm a foil man. I love my depowers and my four line fixed bridles. I've been thinking about getting a Flysurfer 15. I hate air pumps.

This weekend, however, I had my world rocked.

I flew a 15M Cahbrina (don't even remember the make and model) inflatable while landboarding and loved it. It was the first time I've flown one. The bar pressure was great, the depower was huge, and I could feel how much energy was in the kite before I went for a jump. It floated me around like a balloon and had a huge window to fly in. Are these standard characteristics of LEIs? Because if I can get flysurfer-like float and air with an LEI, I'm IN!

[tsp13]

Yher that sounds like a lei to me. Modern lei's are very good compared to an old lei, which might of been what gave you a bad impresion of surf kites.

I can't compare with a flysurfer as I have never flown a fly surfer.

[plummet]

yep sound about right.
i'm running 10 manta on land and 11m edge on water and they are both glorious for different reasons.

i love the depower of the edge and its speed. but the insane glides of the manta are supreme...... oh yeah.

[austin]

lei's for the win, try a c-kite on land you'd be surprised

[Krazy Kiter]

big LEI's do give great float, but a flysurfer speed wins every time on the float charateristics
however, are you really prepared to put up with THAT turning speed, just for the float? you have to land tricks in light wind as transitions, there simply isnt the redirect. LEI's for me. But im a kitesurfer as well as a landboarder.

[here's jonny!]

yes there is redirect in light wind...its all about learning when to accelerate the kite by letting bar out so it dives across as youre coming to land...

flysurfers absolutely win on land...shame i cant afford the bloody expensive buggers

[Krazy Kiter]

i know the technique, but really, flysurfers dont win in anything appart from float. Their just too damn slow. LEI's have faster turning, better depower, better all round performance.

[here's jonny!]

get a go on a Speed 3...then tell me that Lei's are better

[tsp13]

A lei is a lot cheap than a flysurfer, is the flysurfer worth the extra money???

[here's jonny!]

i always wondered is a lfysurfer worth the extra money...

than Flew a Speed 3 15m Deluxe...and my god its worth it.. ..no kite like that out there, and ive flown a lot of kites on land

[plummet]

monster foils have there place! and its low wind.... or wind below 15 knots. lei's are too heavy and are gak in low winds. the foil rules the roost.
i want a monster flysurfer for when i grow up. (hmm i'm 38 still haven't grown up) can i afford one? hell no. . . . . .

i'm waiting for some one to a jump out of hot air balloon with one and try to paraglide with it and then ditch it mid air and parashute to earth. The i'll be waiting in the shadows for that flysurfer to hit the ground and i'll swipe its deluxe clothy ass.

[Afro]

^
Flysurfer Balloon Jump V1.0 (Psycho2) on Vimeo

[austin]

get a go on a Speed 3...then tell me that Lei's are better

easily done. leis are better

[here's jonny!]

...in 10-15 mph, speed 3 15m Deluxe on a landboard

no beating it for hangtime, lift, float, stability and basically itll do everything an Lei will do, except kiteloop...but yes you can still downloop them

[Tjah1087]

easily done. leis are better

on water or for loopin, yea.

on land i got to admit the speed 3 gives a ridiculous amount of height and hangtime compared to an lei for similar wind conditions.

[austin]

land kiting........10-15knots..........rather be down the pub

[Maz]

I have also flown both foil and lei's. But have recently sold all my lei's and bought a quiver of closed cell foil so I can still get on the water in the summer.
I'm liking the ease of use and set up, the grunt size for size and the lift and float which I think is smoother on the foils. I still like lei's and they are faster kites that rip you off ya feet when sent. But speed ain't everything, depends what you want from the kite I suppose and I'm getting my satifaction from my closed cell foils. Especially the bigger ones

[carlos_climber]

was out on the water yesterday with a dedicated C flyer - he'd never touched a foil - My mate loaned him is speed 15 dl - and he was suprise, talked of the smoothness - power and upwind ability. Hed'd ridden it back to back with his 14 rebel.

So you can love your big FS in 10 - 15 knts and your 9 c in 25 - it's all a bout using the right kit for the conditions and not being blinkered to one type or make (says he with a garage full of flysurfers !!)

[Maz]

So you can love your big FS in 10 - 15 knts and your 9 c in 25 - it's all a bout using the right kit for the conditions and not being blinkered to one type or make (says he with a garage full of flysurfers !!)

Amen to that! I've taken a shine to these hq neo's lately and have just got me a quiver. The 8m is pretty quick and likes to be thrown arround! So I was quite happy to replace my 9m C kite for this. And actually size for size. The 8m foil is more powerfull than the 9m c due to it's flat span. I know that These neo's aren't flysurfers but they get the thumbs up from me and many who have tried them + their half the price. After trying lei's for the 1st time, I got rid of my original foils as I thought lei's were the bees knees! But these modern depower closed cell foils are great and have totally changed my whole opinion, hence now I'm back on the foils... No more forgetting pumps! And they are quicker and easier to set up and pack up... But don't let that put you off leu's if they are your thing. Just find the kite you like and enjoy it for what it is... Regardless of everyone elses opinion.

[Krazy Kiter]

Meh, each to their own. Foils suck on water, and im a kitesurfer for half the year, so im sticking with my LEI's. Flysurfers give good height, great hangtime, but for looping im sticking to my LEI's and for water use, the foils get beaten everytime. LEI wins on versatility and price. You can get a quiver of LEI's for the price of a 15mtr speed 3 deluxe.

[Maz]

I didn't think this thread was about which is better or worse. All kites have good and bad points and like it's been said, it's down to personal preference. I don't do the kite looping thng so that element doesn't bother me! But I'm sure there's plenty f'surfer users who pull loops to their hearts content! I think it's fair to say that's it's ok to have a preference, but you can't tell someone who's competent and happy with there kit that what I use is better!

[Krazy Kiter]

^never said they were bad kites. Flysurfers are good at what they do, but somewhat limited in my opinion. And really expensive.

[here's jonny!]

whats limited about a speed 3?
It breaks boundaries and limits of what was once possible on kites
I agree with comments on pricing, but to be honest, you pay shit loads more for proper brands like north and slingshot and flexifoil, when other kites do the same job ... So yes flysurfers are damn expensive, but its because they're so unbelievably nice to fly, smoother than lei's ... No pumping, just hot launch... Bigger and more manageable lift and way way way more hangtime and float ...
Krazy kiter, have you actually had dedicated time on a speed 3 to be commenting on their limitations?
And you can kiteloop them, but they're proper hench shit scary loops, no tight turning lei loop stuff

But i agree on water lei's have their place, fast turning of lei's allows quick direction changes and stuff, and kitelooping is so much easier ... That said i will be trying closed cell foils on water this year, hopefully i'll be pleasantly surprised

[Krazy Kiter]

Like it or not, speed 3 is SLOW!! its turning time is limited, as is its high wind ability (of course, its a low wind kite.) Hence limited kite. I learnt on water on a peter lynn venom mk 1. It did the job, and auto zenith is nice, but compare it to an LEI and the foil loses. Just hasnt got the performance.
Yes, brand new kites are expensive, but tbh older LEI's are still great kites - my quiver is from 07-08. So you can pick up decent LEI's cheap, mine cost £650, both RTF. Thats less than half of a new Speed 3, and gives me a larger wind range.
Ive flown a 12mtr speed 2 quite a bit. I liked it, nice kite. Especally liked to grunt. BUT its low end was about the same as my 12.5 ion2, because of the extra speed of the ion2 and the Ion2 in 5th line modes got enough grunt to have lots of fun in the light stuff, whilst still being fast enough to loop. Its not going to catch you, but at least you can loop it!!

Its the old arguement for the light winds, size vs turning time. Flysurfer has more projected surface area, LEI's make up for smaller area by being faster.

As for which kites have more lift, sorry but the LEI's win again. how high you go is somewhat dependant on how fast you can throw the kite back. I know someone is about to post that vid of Gregga going massive on his speed 3, but someone using an LEI could match that. Certainly i think the push kiting crew go highest on land, and what do they use? LEI's.
LEI's are great kites to fly, with probarly the highest performance of any design of kite. LEI's on water, and on land for me too.




oh and no annoying complex bridals too.

[here's jonny!]

going big on a flysurfer is safer ... More float, less savage lift, more like being on an escalator lol ...

Ah well lets not argue ...

Like you said lei's are so much cheaper, which is why im going for olds model lei's until i can free up enough cash for some flysurfers.... Or i might just extend my lei quiver of instincts when my one gets here soon depending on how i get on with it