scorpion first impressions

[Skyhooked]

ok - first just want to say this is not pimping. i ride for NO ONE - i have a job now that demands i remain impartial

this is NOT a review!!

but - there has been a lot of hype and people i think are crying out for the facts. it can be frustrating to want info on something and just get a load of half truths and whispers

this is just a bit of info to help some peeps out. i'll keep it brief

i've been testing the 10m and 16m scorpion over the last couple of weeks. i havent had that much time underneath them - two kitesurf sessions and one landboard session - today

i kitesurfed twice with the 10m. winds 22-25knots. underpowered at times. truthfully this is not a kitesurfing kite. however, it did turn quick and bar pressure was light enought that you could sling it about on the waves. sending the kite wrenches you up very fast and hard from the water. you do go high. you get there quick. it is not comparable to the bow style float - this is a boot up the arse. you need to redirect HARD or loop to avoid a big splash down

upwind is better than the other arcs - it is very good upwind. edging too hard stalls you though, just like the phantom. straight line speed is very fast if thats your thing

downers - lack of grunt. no bow style float

the 16m - today, landboarding. 15knots dropping. at first, lift was quite a shock. more violent than v2 - and higher. this is very obvious. wind dropped, had a few potters about, thats it.

conclusion. everyhing on these kites in terms of stability, launch, internal straps etc...low wind ability is just what you have come to expect for good or bad after the venom2. build is a bit more beefed up. the spars fit better and have better pockets to sit in. the kite has more reinforcements. the bridle is totally simple and looks well beefy. big old pulleys. the scorpion is the liftiest arc by a good margin, it goes upwind better and is faster in a straight line.

ask q's if you have any. sorry cant be a bit more in depth. hope this helps

[kevob]

venom 3 could be a fantastic for the water then
why do you have to re-direct hard, is it a slow turner or very fast hrought the window and ends up well behind you?

[kitejunky2]

what is the wind range on the 16m?

[Skyhooked]

venom 3 could be a fantastic for the water then
why do you have to re-direct hard, is it a slow turner or very fast hrought the window and ends up well behind you?

hi kevob - correct i forgot to mention the 10m is very fast accross the window. you'll be under it in a second

turning speed is deffo not an issue, you can easily loop it on the way down

i had been getting used to the bows where you can pump the bar or hold it in

i guess 14stone i;m gonna come down pretty quick anyway, but confident redirection sets you up for a nice landing

kitejunky - windrange on 16m, probs a bit higher to get started and a bit higher to the top end over the v2. dunno, havent tested its upper. as always with arcs, not a real treat in light winds

[Airdeck86]

what winds were you using it in? how do you compare it to a P15?

[bathy1]

hows the turning on the 16 compared to an18 p.
also lift wise ,does it get you up quicker and longer. ? assuming the projected area of the s is similair to that of the 18 p,like the venom.

[Skyhooked]

hi bathy - let me see if i can answer your q;s

it lifts much harder than the 15 or 18 p/ and higher. like i say - it will shock you - no bs

as for hangtime - thats up to how fast your going. like most new kites, more than enough in the hands of a good kiter. it feels much more direct and puposefull than a p, so it should tho --its 2 yrs newer

regarding turn speed - cant say really too much as wind got v light. but initial impressions are that it is much more nimlble than the p range

the 10m was certainly quick enough.

my initial thoughts were it turned like the 16m v2. i can give better info on this after the weekend

[bathy1]

cheers mate,keeping a close eye on this,got my eyes on a 16 s,BUT it would have to be a signifant improvement on tha18 p to get the money out of my hands.
still wandering why there wasn't a phantom2!!! like the vs and gs. i mean this kite aint a direct replacement for the p's is it ,or am i wrong

[Tyler Durden]

Sounds like good fun, although I'm really not surprised you were underpowered on the 10m at under 25 knots! At your weight that's the windrange of a 16m V2!

I have two questions;

Where the hell did you get them from!?

and, does the middle strap float across the whole length of the kite, and flatten the profile as the bar is pulled in?

[bathy1]

^^^^^^^^^and can you drill holes in it to make it lighter^^^^^^^


sorry dude couldnt resist

[Chris L]

Where the hell did you get them from!?

Not got yours yet Barry? Thought you would have had the first one off the boat!

[thegman89]

Hey dom

How do you think it compares to a 13m G2??

[mx5alan]

still wandering why there wasn't a phantom2!!! like the vs and gs. i mean this kite aint a direct replacement for the p's is it ,or am i wrong

Apart from slightly faster turning the Phantom is a perfect design.

Why would you want to pay for a new kite if all it is a few very minor tweaks (wing tip zips, Aluminium Spars and new colours) - which makes no difference to performance.

What mods can you do to the Phantom to improve it. - NONE
Venom TET doesn't work.
Tips are already positioned for best performance.
Wing-tip zips for inflation.

[sflinux]

Skyhooked,
How does the Scorpion fly unhooked?
Have you tried flying it with a traditional pulley bar?

[bathy1]

still wandering why there wasn't a phantom2!!! like the vs and gs. i mean this kite aint a direct replacement for the p's is it ,or am i wrong

Apart from slightly faster turning the Phantom is a perfect design.

Why would you want to pay for a new kite if all it is a few very minor tweaks (wing tip zips, Aluminium Spars and new colours) - which makes no difference to performance.

What mods can you do to the Phantom to improve it. - NONE
Venom TET doesn't work.
Tips are already positioned for best performance.
Wing-tip zips for inflation.

so your saying the phantom .

lives up to the hype of THE ULTIMATE LANDBOARD KITE. gotta say had mine for over 2 years,cant fault them,thats why its gonna take a lot of performance improvement to tear me away from my 18 p



awaiting the flysurfer onslaught!

[harry_a]

*cough* did someone say LEI?

[thegman89]

*cough* did someone say LEI?

nope, sorry! byeeeee xxx

[Skyhooked]

Skyhooked,
How does the Scorpion fly unhooked?
Have you tried flying it with a traditional pulley bar?

hi mate

no i havent tried it with a pulley bar - i dont think its the sort of kite that i would use for that set up. if i had to use an arc with a pulley bar i would use the vortex, if i had to. or if you mean the pulley bar set up as found on the crossbows etc...no i havent with that either

unhooked - nope again. but it does seem that the more mid aspect kites perform better unhooked. the scorpion is very quick to get to the edge of the window - i dont know that this would lend itslef to the new school unhooked stuff, by virtue of the design. sure, it will be very good for dangling unhooked stuff i have no doubt, so long as you can get the speed up to get airborne, it wont be any different to sheeting in hard for a jump

tyler durden - depends on your version of 25knots. when i'm out in 25knots, most people are out on 9m bows, 8m c kites etc, 10m v...here the 10m s felt underpowered. i once took a v2 16m kitesurfing in 25knots. fully depowered with all internal straps set to loose. it was bloody uncomfortable. people were murdering it on 11m c kites while i was just clinging on...i should have been on a 13m and then i would have been flying. i;m sure people lighter than me take to the land in such conditions, but it aint for me. i used to top out at around 20knots on the 16m. that got me high enough for long enough

middle strap is just the same as the v2 or vortex

mx5alan - phantom ultimate kitesurfing kite? thats a pretty heavy claim bruddah! i aint saying the skorpion is but it sure beats the hell out of the phantom as far as i can tell. who said anything about zips and colours?? things have moved on a bloody long way since the p. i used to love that kite but really...maybe the phantom itself couldnt be improved unless you morphed into into another kite, but the same could be said about penny farthings and bicycles

anyway, will get the stats over to you by end of weekend

g man - comparison with g2 13m - more depower, more lift, faster turning, flies faster etc...etc...

[mx5alan]

mx5alan - phantom ultimate kitesurfing kite? thats a pretty heavy claim bruddah! i aint saying the skorpion is but it sure beats the hell out of the phantom as far as i can tell. who said anything about zips and colours?? things have moved on a bloody long way since the p. i used to love that kite but really...maybe the phantom itself couldnt be improved unless you morphed into into another kite, but the same could be said about penny farthings and bicycles

anyway, will get the stats over to you by end of weekend

Cheers for the reply...
No... not saying Phantom is the ultimate Kitesurf kite I posted

Phantom is a perfect design

Definatly not the 'ultimate' for kitesurfing as you can kill all the power too easily when edging hard with the kite is at the side of the window.
Not really a Park and Ride kite on the water, due to the high AR it has to be flown for it to perform. Like the F-ARC not a beginners kite if you want to take it on the water.

Agree things have moved on since the P, the zips and colours comment was only about mods to the Phantom - meaning why would anyone want to buy a new kite which is almost identical to the old model. The only way the Phantom can be improved is with a step like we had from GII to V - which means TOTAL redisign.

Looking forward to the reply to PM

[Arretu]

I'm just hopin that now the prices on the v2 will go down is 595 inc p n' p OK? gettin from totek if poss.

[Skyhooked]

sry mx5alan - meant to write kitelandboarding kite not kitesurfing kite - i know ya werent saying that

understood re - zips etc...on the newer phantom. no reason to upgrade for a p owner, yet if ya didnt have one and were in the market, well, welcome changes i reckon for a first timer to arcs

will measure 10m and 16m up and get back to you

ps - hello sukie

pps - hello domdino - the legend!!!

[Tyler Durden]

[quote=Skyhooked;1347655]

tyler durden - depends on your version of 25knots. when i'm out in 25knots, most people are out on 9m bows, 8m c kites etc, 10m v...here the 10m s felt underpowered. i once took a v2 16m kitesurfing in 25knots. fully depowered with all internal straps set to loose. it was bloody uncomfortable. people were murdering it on 11m c kites while i was just clinging on...i should have been on a 13m and then i would have been flying. i;m sure people lighter than me take to the land in such conditions, but it aint for me. i used to top out at around 20knots on the 16m. that got me high enough for long enough

middle strap is just the same as the v2 or vortex

Hey dude, you ignored my first question

I weigh around 11 1/2 stone and really enjoy the 16m V2 on land in 25mph (22 knots) and I thought you needed more power in the water

Does that mean that the Scorpions are more powerful than the V2s size for size?

(sub question - why aren't they making a bigger Scorpion?)

[mx5alan]

(sub question - why aren't they making a bigger Scorpion?)

I would say because as the kite turns faster and is higher AR you generate the extra power by flying the kite not just park and riding it. Similar with some of the Bow kites (eg: Nova 2) take them on the water you use a wider board or a skimboard.

[Skyhooked]

hey tyler - skorpions not more powerful than v's i dont reckon

like i say, we must have different ideas of 25knots! i wouldnt be able to fly the 16m v2 on land in 25knots. well i would, but to no advantage over the 13m

not sure why they arent makin a bigger one, maybe they think that there isnt a market for it?

the nova2 comes only in a 12m as takoon, by their own honest admission, say that they cannot design a suitable 14m - well one that outperforms their big c kites in low winds. they live and test their kites in the tramontana wind - from 20 - 45knots. so they are really high wind masters. well thats what they told us when we met up with em in montpellier!

[Tyler Durden]

not sure why they arent makin a bigger one, maybe they think that there isnt a market for it?

No market!

My P18 was my second most used kite (after the 15m), and if the Scorpion offers more depower and faster turning then it would have been my most used!

Oh well, not much I can do about that.

(you still avoided my 1st question , come on spill the beans)